So Much Attention!

It seems that my recent posts have not exactly evoked the most favourable of reactions from a certain group of people, who believe that I (seemingly representative of IITians in this particular context) am constantly searching to assert my superiority over others merely because I happen to have studied at one of the premier educational institutes in the world.

Let me assure you with all my heart – that isn’t true. Perhaps I speak for all IITians (or at least most of them) when I say this but the truth is like all other human beings, we merely identify with where we spent 4 of the most formative years of our lives, interacting with all kinds of real specimens from all over India, growing up to be the people that we shall be for the rest of our lives. I am not any different from the chap who studied at St. Stephen’s College (New Delhi) and is proud of it, or the girl from St. Xavier’s (Bombay) and is automatically taken to be a cut above the rest, or the brilliant engineer from MIT who is close to worshipped wherever she goes.

Elite institutions exist all over the world. Just as here in America, as in anywhere else in the world (like the UK – Oxford, Cambridge), you inspire awe when you say you study at a top ranked university (I mean, gimme a break, just look at the frenzy that the US News rankings generate). The media can’t stop talking enough about it and people in society continue to discuss which universities everybody’s kids are going to and of course, the subtle (but definitely present) snobbery that exists between parents and the kids that actually to these schools.

India is no different, of course. The IITs were a product of a vision of India’s first Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, who believed that India needed a world-class technological institute to produce the engineers that India would need as it grew to find its place in the world. Now, there is of course, lots of controvery about whether they actually served this purpose given that most IIT graduates come to the US for higher studies and many continue to live here for the rest of their lives. That is a separate topic and not something I shall talk about here.

The IITs, as it turns out, did live up to what was expected of them. Year after year, they churn out graduates that multinational companies all over the world scramble to employ. The same can be said about MIT, Stanford, Cambridge, London School of Economics and so on. The reputation that IITians have built for themselves is certainly not by fluke – they have consistently lived up to standards that were expected of them (and perhaps even surpassed them) and this fact is there for you to see wherever you look – whether it is the media or in corporate boardrooms.

The Indian media (and society), however, makes a particularly big deal out of the whole thing. As I grew up in Hyderabad, every single news item or article in the newspapers that had any mention of IIT or its graduates, never, ever failed to impress upon the reader, the pedestal that IIT graduates are placed on. Even as an undergraduate at IIT Madras, I met many different people, from strangers on trains to friends who studied with me in school, who always treated me differently because I was from IIT. There have been times when I have wished that people would just treat me as any normal human being instead of always being conscious of the fact but of course, it never did work. There are many other good institutes in India, of course – IISc, the RECs, BITS Pilani and others – where some students are just as good, if not better. Unfortunately for us, we seem to get all the attention!

As for me, I certainly don’t need to hang on to the fact that I am an IITian to assert my superiority over anybody else, Mr. Sammy (you should write to me off-line, incidentally) because I really do not need to. I know what I am and I know as well as you do that it is the person that counts. I never claimed (if you ask people who know me well or construe my posts carefully) that only IITians succeed – as is obvious from the fact that Indians (who are not all IITians, and can’t be because there aren’t that many) in the US are in the 95th percentile for household income. And as for being a FOB (Fresh Off the Boat – a derogatory term for Indians new to the US), that I most certainly am and make no bones about.

I treat every human being I come across with respect. Whether he studied at IIT or Timbuktoo is of no consequence as far as my personal dealings with him/her go. However, if I were a recruiter, I would certainly take a candidate more seriously if his resume showed he was from IIT just as I would if it said MIT or LSE instead. Or even McKinsey & Company, for that matter. That is what any other recruiter does anyway.

Do not ask me (or any other person from a prestigious institution in the world) to grow up and stop being stuck up about “some school you went to.” Because it isn’t just some school, my friend. It is that very special place where I went from being a 17-year old adolescent to a 21-year old man; where I learnt the ropes of living life from the friends, some of the smartest minds in the world, who will always be an inseparable part of my life.

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This post was written by who has written 136 posts on Things Ravi Pratap Is Up To.

  • http://www.hackGNU.org/ Ramakrishnan

    Let me first say that I am an alumnus of IIT-M too, though I dropped out (for non-academic reasons). Below are some of my thoughts. IIT is basically an undergrad school. Much of the reputation that IIT gets is *not* because of the quality of education that students get from IIT, but because of the inherent quality of the students. And I would say out of say 60 students of a batch, max of 5 students are truely great and motivated. Rest are as good as anybody else I can find on any college. But those 5 are truely outstanding. Absolutely no great research happens at IIT. Atleast that is my experience at IITM, Dept of EE, circa 1998. And I should also say that BTech students mostly come to the classes with horns on their head.. There are of course exceptions. From the experience of working in a company, I can say that the “hands-on” skills of IITians are not too great either. They know programming. But that’s not the only thing expected from an engineer. Engineering is the art of taking things apart and studying it and fixing problems. I sometime don’t see such skills in those guys. They seem to be too academic.

    And it is foolish to compare MIT or stanford with IIT, basically because, they are research schools rather than teaching schools, unlike IITs. And none of the MIT/Stanford alumni I know of are over-confident/over-proud of their institution. Unless asked, they do not even reveal that their alma mater. India has long promoted this culture of tier system and that has shown up in education too. IMHO, all technical educations should be treated equal and should all have same entrance exam.

    This is my experience. I don’t value a person based on his degrees on paper. IMHO, there is a lot of hype about IIT in the media and most do not know the hardships that research scholars face there.

  • http://www.rpmduplex.net/ravi/rahul Rahul

    Really, Ramakrishnan? 5 out of 60? That’s giving us too little credit, isn’t it? Were you a BTech yourself? Because if you were, I’d expect you’d have gathered and understood enough about how the typical IITian undergrad’s mind works while in IIT, and while surrounded by a whole lot more of this ‘inherent quality’ than most people find manageable. I find that attitude more than forgivable – after getting out into the world, they often shock themselves with the demonstration of that _ability_, as well as proof of existence of that actual _knowledge_, which people all along have called the IITian edge. Of course, a large number of professors, and the non-BTech population, love reducing our lives to the undeserved benefits of one fortunate accident called JEE, and talk of horns on our heads and other such bromide.

    They know programming? They can’t solve real problems? That’s criminal. And it’s tragic that so many IITians should land up in such a place where someone passes judgement on their programming skills. I give my batchmates way more credit than that. They are good engineers. It’s just that their seniors have taught them to deny it, suppress it, and take pride in it, until they get out of IIT. You can’t deny that the BTech curriculum is rather ingeniously designed, with that emphasis on fundamentals that remains our strength all our lives.

    Any talk of research is quite out of place here. Ravi, for heaven’s sake, qualify your statements. You meant every bit to speak for the BTech experience, as do I above. You don’t have to fear sounding too chauvinistic and high-headed by excluding the et cetera. The IITs are known for their BTechs, and a lot of people are quick to get some convenient mileage out of that, and just as quick to grudge the BTechs this same fact. No matter which component or dimension of the IITian experience you speak of, people will always see it as that chauvinism speaking.

    Hold your head high. Say it with pride. The IITs rock! Love us. Hate us. Cartoon us. Lampoon us. You still can’t capture what life here is about until you join us.

  • http://www.livejournal.com/~shortindiangirl Anjana

    I don’t care to state my opinion on IIT as an institution or the capabilities of IIT-ans as compared to others.

    However, when anyone beats their own drum about something it sounds bad and annoys others. It does’t matter if the chap is from Colgate University or MIT. If he says “I am great”, it annoys other people. They will, at best, ignore the chap, and at worst mock him. The most common reaction is irritation.

    If you attribute this natural reaction to insecurity on the part of others, you can understand why “I’m great, I’m from MIT” would annoy someone more than “I’m great, I’m from Colgate”. And then there are some who consider themselves worthy of a brand name college but felt cheated out of it due to competition, testing methods etc. Naturally the annoyance would be more for the brand name college in question than for a non brand name college, because no one feels cheated out of the latter.

    Ultimately Scott Adams did not show someone else calling out the fact that Asok was from IIT and had superior mental abilities. Asok generated the commentary. And to boot, the strip wasn’t really funny.

  • Ravi

    Looks like everybody is just completely missing the point of my post. One, we get a *lot* of attention without asking for it. And two, as my brother puts it, “Love us. Hate us. Cartoon us. Lampoon us. You still can’t capture what life here is about until you join us.”

  • Ravi

    Oh and to make things very clear – I really mean to talk only about the B.Techs.

  • Rajesh

    Ramakrishnan is absolutely correct. I am an alumnus of IITK, and 5 out of 60 is in fact on the higher side. I would say 2 out of 60. Education without moral values is the biggest waste. Humility is the biggest asset, and so-called IITans like you and your brother have very little of that. What a waste of Indian money to spend on the education of people like you!

    Rajesh.

  • ahutosh

    Hey grow up! You say you grew up from 17 year old boy to 21 year old man?? I dont think so. The reverse has happened in IIT I guess. you are now a 13 year old boy! ha ha ha..

  • Raj

    Well, well, well. And the previous post just regressed this forum from a mature debate to a display of juvenile finger-pointing. Ad hominem!

    It will be greatly appreciated if people can refrain from making personal attacks – though yes, I understand that the issue in question happens to be ‘the twisted personalities of IITians’ (?!)

    So rather than make judgemental statements, it would be great if everybody can stick to a balanced debate. This is a discussion that I have had several times with my friends, but thankfully, it never degraded to a mud-slinging competition.

    And as for Sammy’s offensive comment about being ‘fobbish’ (nice!) from the previous blog entry… well, let me throw your own words back at you (at the risk of sounding just as cliched) – it’s the person who matters and not whether they are veteran dwellers in the United States, or poor li’l boorish FOBs like me. Or, are you trying to suggest that the longer you stay here in the United States, the better you become as a human being? LOL! (in case you think I’m jumping to conclusions, well, I’m just playing the game the way everybody else is)

    P.S. And I wonder why you didn’t leave a legit email id or URL!

  • http://www.rpmduplex.net/ravi/rahul Rahul

    I don’t care to respond to ahutosh’s infantile wisecrack, self-proclaimed as it is with those three ha’s. I’m sure he’ll find a majority of his audience shorter than most height limits at Disneyland.

    As for Rajesh, formerly of IIT Kanpur, I wonder what qualifies you to speak for that class of sixty. Have you so humbly reserved one spot of those two for yourself? Or are you part of that remaining scum? Let’s see you admit with grace to either. Humility is the greatest asset indeed! It is. But not when it is so much for its own sake. Not when it is remembered as the moral of some stories you learnt as a kid, the absorption and appreciation of which you must broadcast to the world by such preachings.

    Actually, Rajesh, unless you were also a BTech, I don’t want to trifle any further with this endless, pointless discussion. But think, if you can, of what started this whole thing.

    My brother and I, to begin with are not so called IITians. We are IITians – no less ‘so called’ than you are. One half of the rest of the world just can’t stop making a fuss about IITians. And the other half can’t stop accusing us of gloating. This has been taken far enough to irritate the humblest and most patient of people. The rest of the world creates this hype about us. And before we even have a chance to respond, the same people say we’re swollen with arrogance.

    I don’t know what narrow, dimensionless terms you define humility in. It certainly isn’t self-deprecation. And it certainly isn’t taking this kind of nonsense either. The IITian experience really is a big deal. So if you want us to, in our feigned humility, pretend that it isn’, we won’t. There’s also some such thing as pride. (continued…)

  • http://www.rpmduplex.net/ravi/rahul Rahul

    (…continued)
    Let’s see your humility hold you back if some braindead American suddenly came along and said, “All Indians think no end of themselves. They’re just living in the reflected glory of the Sanskrit language, and the decimal system and the zero of three thousand years ago. And they think their grades and salaries make them superior.” and other such unreasonable, unforgivably inane remarks.

    If you, as an Indian, can truly believe that something does set the Indian experience apart, and that nobody else can understand that, and you therefore react sharply to those words, then we IITians can do that just as goddamn well, and not worry about the opinions of somebody too bothered about how humble he appears to others and how humble other appear to him. There’s a bigger cause to defend here.

    So, Rajesh, if you have more to say on the matter, either of the humility that you refuse to let go of, or of what the IITs are worth and whatever on earth qualifies you (other than your capacity as just a disillusioned alumnus of an IIT) to speak about that, please do write to me offline. To me it just appears you are a senior brainwasher’s dream come true. You’ve left IIT, and you still don’t see what it was worth. Or you define worth (or for that matter inspiration, motivation and capacity of your classmated) in the same textbook terms that you’ve been taught to define humility and morals.

    And Ravi, I’m sorry I couldn’t hold it back on this occasion either!

  • SAMMY

    my response was long due, since i started it. well its not IIT or stephens, its the indian mind, ramakrishnan puts it right, i have buddies from carnegie mellon, MIT, U mich, they dont brag about it, the average indian kid who is 12-13 should not aspire to get into IIT or medical school, he should be equally encouraged to be a tailor if he wants to. econimics of the third world do force this, but what are we sacrificing at the end of the day, overall development of a child. IIT cannot be compared to MIT, but yeah IIT does provide graduates to MIT, but MIT is a first world institution.
    you have every right to be proud of being an alumnus of IIT, but wahts wrong, is for the societal class/meantality that has been created, the average IITian makes use of the indian tax payers money and goes to serve americas needs, while the average lance naik in the indian army makes 3000 rupess a month, and ends up giving a lot more to the country.. is the treatment justified?…
    at the end of the day, i dont want to get obssed with IIT, or MIT..we all know what “change” in India means..

  • http://manjunath.blogspot.com Manju

    I’m not an IITian! People do not get into IIT by fluke or by luck, they get their thru sheer hardwork and determination. Those who do not have determination end up leaving the institute after a couple of years like one of the commentors. I think, IITians have every right to be proud about it and others who cudn’t make it, have evry right to envy them if not abuse them. Just like the Onida ad!! Ofcourse i don’t belong to either category.

    It’s not just a name in US, but all over the world! I’d been to china and was surprised when one of my colleagues, a chinese asked me whether I am an IITian. This chap doesn’t know anything about India except the IITs. All in all, the IITians are worthy of the attention they get, they deserve it. But, they really do not have to brag about it!

  • Rohit

    You need to stop drowning in self instituted megalomancy. Anyone with half a brain and enough practice can clear the JEE and study at IIT’s. The most brilliant of people come from the most ordinary of places and whats more they are well aware of their intelligence and dont put it on display. They dont have to prove anything it just shows!!!

  • Piyush

    i completely agree with Rohit’s opinion . It is true that any one who is intelligent need not to be from a branded institution. But now a days the intelligent one unless come from a branded institution does not get so much of opurtunities and exposure as an average one can have in it. it should not be like this people must think practically they must not be after the name of the so called institution but after the person capabilities.